letter to codeguru owners

Let me start by saying that I've been an active member here for more than 10 years. I used to post a lot; I've done moderation, article reviewing and others. I've learned a lot here and I guess I helped others. I've made friends here. There was a time when my only online activity was codeguru. Simply, I love codeguru. No, I used to love codeguru. But not anymore; and I find that so sad. Let me tell you why.

Every update that was done to this site in the past two years or so had a negative impact on the site and on our experience here, whether we deliver content or just browse it. First it was the ads that messed the articles layout, then it was the forum update, then several updates to the main site, going from worse to worst. I have published tens of articles here. In fact I kept publishing only on codeguru. It was out of loyalty, because I always felt I was a small part of this site, of this community.

Ten years ago it was a community of enthusiasts committed to help each other. Nowadays it's all about unique visitors per month and clicks per ad. Cash is key, content doesn't matter and users' wishes are ignored. However, content generates traffic and traffic generates cash. Content and browsing experience should be the top priority.

Looking at the latest update I can only wonder whether the purpose is to kill codeguru or the company simply doesn't have people with enough creativity or just the ability to copy from others in order to make something simple and beautiful. Both possibilities are tragic. Codeguru used to be a top developer site. Today nobody regards codeguru as such. While competition progressed, codeguru regressed. Codeproject features great articles with a beautiful layout and stackoverflow is by far the most popular destination for finding answers to your problem. It's modern, it's simple, and it's appealing. They always end up in the top results in search engines. Where is codeguru? Really, where?

Codeguru is a dinosaur. It is an animal on the extinction list. It is a patient on life support. And it's dying. Slowly, but the outcome is inevitable. Every new update that you deliver is a fatal blow; a kick in the head with a blunt object. Can you make anything to save its life? Would a transplant work? I doubt it. Should you try it, remember you only have one shot. Make it count!

A few years from now, when codeguru will be only history I will be able to say, proudly, "I was part of that. I was a codeguru".

Marius Bancila aka cilu
A long time codeguru member

While it's quite sad what has happened...I completely agree with everything said here!

It is too early to know what the impact of the newest update will have on the site.

I can say that Codeguru continues to be a strong site and strong community. Traffic and visitor numbers are actually up over last year, so rumors of our demise are greatly exaggerated.

I do agree that this last change saw some things removed in the interest of moving to an new content management system. The expectation is that this will position the site to better tap into the QuinStreet (parent company) tools and systems. This includes SEO tools and more. That in turn should help the longer term viability of the site.

One thing that has made Codeguru a great site is the ability for members to express their opinions and provide feedback. I take all of the feedback seriously. I know others within Quinstreet do as well. As such, please continue to let us know what you think. Hopefully we'll be able to do some changes in the near future that will get feedback that is a bit more positive!

Sincerely,

Brad!

My biggest issue that I have had has been site design. Personally, I cannot stand how cluttered the design is. Text is everywhere and scrunched.

Look at any major design firm and you will see in their site and portfolios well placed whitespace and headers that guide the eye to a different content. The dividers on our homepage do nothing but make the sections crammed.

EDIT: Our site design screams web 1.0 from the early 2000s.

You know, maybe I still love codeguru. :) The community, not the software. That's why I'm saying all these things. Some people need a wake-up call. Now. Before it's too late. If we shut up how could they know things are not well? We must voice all the problems. If we do it and they ignore it, then I was obviously right.

BTW Brad, your stats don't matter. You know why? Because very few search results put codeguru at the top.

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Originally Posted by cilu

BTW Brad, your stats don't matter. You know why? Because very few search results put codeguru at the top.

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Which is why I do understand merging over in order to use the SEO tools. ;)

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Originally Posted by PeejAvery

My biggest issue that I have had has been site design. Personally, I cannot stand how cluttered the design is. Text is everywhere and scrunched.

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I must say that is something that rings true about that statement: for example - while I'm relatively active on the forums and love the traditional vBulletin-style, I almost never use the CodeGuru main site - partly because it rarely appears when I search for a topic with Google, but also because it's hard to visually navigate it - it does feel cluttered. It's not that it doesn't have what to offer - so, hopefully, the company will be able to figure out how to rejuvenate it a bit.

Fair enough. It is my task to help rank Codeguru better on keywords. I'll take it as as a 'to do' from you guys as well that I need to do a better job.

Brad!

Brad, you are doing an excellent job. :thumb:

I read this thread last night and pondered on what to do. I actually share the sentiments of Marius and Paul. I have been around a long time. It was one hell of a ride I tell you :) Still is, but not as much.

Way back when I joined CG, it was closer to a family than anything else. I have bonded with many a member. I have made many many friends. Sadly, over the last two and a half years less and less friends still remained active.

The time when I started CG literally boomed! There were hundreds of new members every day, and the forums got bigger and better and more.

IMHO, there is nothing wrong with the foums section of CodeGuru, except for a 21st Century facelift. :D My biggest concern still remains the article section as a whole. The reviewing process IMHO takes too long and making the article live takes even longer. I see this as the biggest obstacle and reason why the user submitted articles numbers dropped. Many a potential writer sees CodeGuru and the like as a platform where they can showcase their skills. Why? Well, for MVP awards - for recognition - whether it be from Microsoft or their employers.

The problem is that CodeGuru unfortuantely cannot compete with CodeProject and StackOverflow. Why? Because they keep reinventing themselves. They keep up with the times and the technology. The previous update of CodeGuru's articles section wasn't too bad IMHO. It was way better than what we had before then, but, this latest update is not cool, honestly I can't say that I like it.

The whole methodolgy of how the articles should be posted and edited here is confusing. This is why people are looking for greener pastures somewhere else.

I will always be loyal to CodeGuru, because I love this place. It is one of the few places where I am allowed to be myself. This is one of the few places that I have been accepted for who I am. I have many friends here - old and new.

But the fact remains, something has to be done drastically about the way articles work here. The forums can be strong, but without the articles, it cannot become stronger.

Hannes - Also a long standing member :)

Just for the record, I have to confess that I've never used the CodeGuru main site, nor consulted articles ... :blush: this at least shows a lack of coordination between the forum and the article base ... say, some mechanism allowing people to easily refer to articles from forum posts ( say, an interactive article browser invokable from the forum interface ) and viceversa, from articles to related discussions ( say, through a tagging system or something like that ... ).

speaking of StackOverflow, I'd say that a professional/enthusiast web community basically serves the following purposes from the POV of the majority of its users base:

1- sharing authored knowledge ( articles, etc.. )
2- answer "one-shot" questions
3- sharing/discussing ideas
4- sharing/discussing good ideas

now, I think StackOverflow outperforms CodeGuru in [2] essentialy because it focuses just on [2], not because of a design superiority ( which is undoubtedly real, but is allowed by a narrowing of its usage base ). Indeed, I find StackOverflow unsuitable for discussions from a user interface POV and I find [3] ( and [4], at least to some extent, as good ideas depend more on people than the forum infrastructure itself ) an essential part of a forum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brad Jones

Fair enough. It is my task to help rank Codeguru better on keywords. I'll take it as as a 'to do' from you guys as well that I need to do a better job.

Brad!

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I've done a synopsis on this issue before..

CG has too many domains .. (this post is been done via codeguru.earthweb.com) which is pretty much fully indexed across many Search Engines..

and the end effect is Dilution of the value of the Primary Domain, because the content is duplicated across multiple domains...

and earthweb is not the only sub domain carrying the CG content..

I think it's about activity rather than form.

If there were more questions and more answers and more discussions everything would be fine.

Maybe it's this idea of Codeguru as a close knit society that's the problem.

Maybe there should be more conflict in Codeguru and more kicking of old placid old-timers in their lead arses (including mine).

Frankly, is that travelgirls ad really something that's appropriate here? Ok I admit that I'm not totally immune to good looking females, it probably has something to do with my genes..., but shouldn't this site avoid such ads? After all, we have a few female members and we don't want to make them leave do we?

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Originally Posted by S_M_A

Frankly, is that travelgirls ad really something that's appropriate here? Ok I admit that I'm not totally immune to good looking females, it probably has something to do with my genes..., but shouldn't this site avoid such ads? After all, we have a few female members and we don't want to make them leave do we?

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If you see this again, can you capture an image of it and email it to me? I've not seen it (yet). That will also make it easier for me to point out ot our ad operations group.

Thanks,
Brad!
bjones . at . internet.dot.com

Quote:

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Originally Posted by S_M_A

Frankly, is that travelgirls ad really something that's appropriate here? Ok I admit that I'm not totally immune to good looking females, it probably has something to do with my genes..., but shouldn't this site avoid such ads? After all, we have a few female members and we don't want to make them leave do we?

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I agree... There are several add's that aren't quite appropriate for CG ...

Brad.. Will try to Screen capture each one as i notice them too...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by S_M_A

Frankly, is that travelgirls ad really something that's appropriate here? Ok I admit that I'm not totally immune to good looking females, it probably has something to do with my genes..., but shouldn't this site avoid such ads? After all, we have a few female members and we don't want to make them leave do we?

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I agree... There are several add's that aren't quite appropriate for CG ...

Brad.. Will try to Screen capture each one as i notice them too...

About the ads, my opinion is that there is a feature that allows you not to see the ads. This is the Expand Fourm to full width link on the right - once that is clicked, the ads are away... OK, until next time, but still. I don't find that ad offensive at all - just my opinion I guess. Shouldn't we rather merge the posts concerning the ads into the Forum Upgrade thread ?

Well the ads were also at the bottom of the page (just above the AUP link) .. However today it appears that ALL adds are now gone...

ALL of them, even the top one (next to the CG Logo) is gone... have not seen one add all day now....

Are you running a blocker? If not, then that is odd. Ads are there now.

Our Ad operations seem to be using a third part ad server for some of the ads. This might serve some things that are a little "off the beaten path". Again, if you see these, email me a picture of the ad (or post it) and I'll ask that it be restricted.

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Originally Posted by GremlinSA

Well the ads were also at the bottom of the page (just above the AUP link) .. However today it appears that ALL adds are now gone...

ALL of them, even the top one (next to the CG Logo) is gone... have not seen one add all day now....

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brad Jones

Are you running a blocker? If not, then that is odd.

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Lol .. Office PC has Chrome, and it's running a Ad blocker, Didn't notice till you mentioned it...

I've now disabled it for CG so i can check the adds..

Brad ...

Travelgirls add in top add bar..

I'm scared to ask what that ad is actually selling....

:)

Thanks for posting. I've brought this up internally as whether it meets our professional standards.....

Brad!

Just saw the add again in the side bar... Attached pic...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brad Jones

I'm scared to ask what that ad is actually selling.... :)

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I clicked on it :blush: and that's why I posted...

It is gone now. There were a few serious internal conversations about the ad and how it ended up on the site.

Shouldn't happen again based on those conversations. :)

Brad!