Tutor a Teenager?

Hey guys, First post :D. I am looking for a tutor who will help me get my feet wet in the world of C++. This is my first time getting into any programming language so I have no prior experience. I just recently started teaching myself, using the lessons on the 'Learn C++' website (currently on chapter 3)
and it's great, but the lessons are becoming overly tedious because there isn't enough coding, just a lot of reading. I do understand that reading is required, but when there is so much more reading than coding, it becomes boring. I am more of a hands-on kinda guy, which is why I am requesting a tutor. I know most people won't tutor for free, but I'm just too young for a job, so I don't have much to spend. If anyone is interested in tutoring me anyways, I would highly appreciate it. Thank you guys!

Couple of things. You're right that the only way to really learn it is to do it, but doing it is pointless if you don't understand why you're doing what you're doing.

Second thing, I don't believe you can learn C++ from a web site. There's just too much you have to know and understand. Typical tutorial books are 1,000 pages or more and they only scratch the surface. With that in mind, a good tutorial book should teach you by having you code lots of examples, and that's where I'd recommend you start.

Third thing, you need to learn to use the debugger right from the beginning. With the debugger, you can watch what your code is doing as it runs. It's an invaluable tool that all or us rely on heavily, and unfortunately it's hardly ever mentioned in tutorials and books. Just about every line of code I write, I watch it run in the debugger to make sure it's doing what I want it to. You can't program without it.

Lastly, if you just want to learn some programming basics, C++ isn't the best language to use. It's kind of low level, and while it's extremely powerful, learning it well is more involved than some of the other languages. As a beginner, you'd find Visual Basic, or perhaps even C# considerably easier.

If you are willing to consider a different programming language, then I recommend Python. You can get those exercises you seek from singpath.

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Originally Posted by GCDEF

Couple of things. You're right that the only way to really learn it is to do it, but doing it is pointless if you don't understand why you're doing what you're doing.

Second thing, I don't believe you can learn C++ from a web site. There's just too much you have to know and understand. Typical tutorial books are 1,000 pages or more and they only scratch the surface. With that in mind, a good tutorial book should teach you by having you code lots of examples, and that's where I'd recommend you start.

Third thing, you need to learn to use the debugger right from the beginning. With the debugger, you can watch what your code is doing as it runs. It's an invaluable tool that all or us rely on heavily, and unfortunately it's hardly ever mentioned in tutorials and books. Just about every line of code I write, I watch it run in the debugger to make sure it's doing what I want it to. You can't program without it.

Lastly, if you just want to learn some programming basics, C++ isn't the best language to use. It's kind of low level, and while it's extremely powerful, learning it well is more involved than some of the other languages. As a beginner, you'd find Visual Basic, or perhaps even C# considerably easier.

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I am a bit confused as to what your point is up there. I asked for a tutor and you tell me all the things I need to learn... doesn't really make sense. If you are suggesting I learn the things on my own, that would completely defeat the purpose of a tutor, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by laserlight

If you are willing to consider a different programming language, then I recommend Python. You can get those exercises you seek from singpath.

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Guys... come one... I do realize that C++ is not an easy language to learn, but I went in knowing that. I don't want suggestions for other languages, just offers from people who are willing to help me with C++.

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Originally Posted by HarrisonTZ

I am a bit confused as to what your point is up there. I asked for a tutor and you tell me all the things I need to learn... doesn't really make sense. If you are suggesting I learn the things on my own, that would completely defeat the purpose of a tutor, in my opinion.

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I'm saying a tutor isn't necessary. Get a good book and work through it rather than trying to learn from a web site. If you have questions on things you don't understand or you get stuck, ask questions here. I kind of doubt you'll find anybody here that wants to mentor you one on one, but lots of people will be willing to help you. Asking questions here helps others who may be facing the same issues.

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Originally Posted by GCDEF

I'm saying a tutor isn't necessary. Get a good book and work through it rather than trying to learn from a web site. If you have questions on things you don't understand or you get stuck, ask questions here. I kind of doubt you'll find anybody here that wants to mentor you one on one, but lots of people will be willing to help you. Asking questions here helps others who may be facing the same issues.

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Thanks. I will find a book, then. You can go ahead and close this topic.

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Originally Posted by laserlight

If you are willing to consider a different programming language, then I recommend Python. You can get those exercises you seek from singpath.

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I also second python, specifically if learning programming for the first time.

I am with laserlight and STLDude. Python would be a great first language to learn. However, another thing you can do regarding C++ is to search for C++ exercises to do. I am certain you can find various difficulties of exercises online.

Resolved. Thanks guys.

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Originally Posted by HarrisonTZ

I just recently started teaching myself ... and it's great, but the lessons are becoming overly tedious because there isn't enough coding, just a lot of reading. I do understand that reading is required, but when there is so much more reading than coding, it becomes boring.

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This seems like being the most problem for you. I hate to discourage people, but you have to know that the situation is going to remain even when you gain more and more skills. Programming is an engineering discipline, so reading and understanding of what you read (and confirming that by other reading sometimes :)) makes the most part of the job. So, if reading is boring for you, maybe you should think twice before starting this long journey.

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I am more of a hands-on kinda guy, which is why I am requesting a tutor. I know most people won't tutor for free, but I'm just too young for a job, so I don't have much to spend. If anyone is interested in tutoring me anyways, I would highly appreciate it.

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If I were in your position, I would think of some sort of C++ courses. In case you can't afford it, you're on your own, and self-education remains your best choice.

One more thing here, a sort of axiom: Not every good technical specialist is capable of good teaching. And those who really are rarely do that for free, as this takes a good time while people need to make their livings. So, I believe your chances to find somebody who would teach you remotely, with good quality and for free are really, really low.

Don't get me wrong, reading is great, but when I have to re-read lines over and over just to understand what the author is trying to teach... I think that might be my main issue with the online tutorials. It kinda seems like they are explaining things using other things I that haven't even been taught yet. Maybe a book would be better. I have heard great things about Accelerated C++. Would you guys recommend this for me?

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Originally Posted by HarrisonTZ

I have heard great things about Accelerated C++. Would you guys recommend this for me?

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Yes.

I think you double posted. And awesome. Any more info? Like, why do you think it is a good book for me and in general?

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Originally Posted by HarrisonTZ

Any more info? Like, why do you think it is a good book for me and in general?

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It teaches modern C++ with an approach that favours the use of the standard library before learning the nitty gritty of how to implement things. It also comes with exercises that you can use for practice.

Sounds informative. I will check that out. Thank you.

What other books should I check out, maybe when I'm done with Accelerated C++?

This has several books suggestions: http://wforl.wordpress.com/C++/

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Originally Posted by HarrisonTZ

What other books should I check out, maybe when I'm done with Accelerated C++?

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I suggest Meyers' Effective C++, 3rd Edition and Dewhurst's C++ Common Knowledge. Some of the information given is outdated with the 2011 edition of the C++ standard (C++11), but much of what they state is still applicable, and knowing the obsolete techniques can still be useful when working with older code. There is also Josuttis' The C++ Standard Library, which again does not cover C++11 related stuff.

Thank you guys. I am not currently learning '11, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Hey dude. I am just like you. Started learning C++ on my own less than a year ago. You can learn from a website. That's how I started. And books... Well, let's just say, they rarely ever make it to the 1000 page mark. Also, short books can teach a lot of stuff if they focus. I suggest that you look into Assembly language. Don't look too far, but even scratching the surface will help clear a ton of things up for you, if you run into anything confusing programming wise. If you would like some real help, tell us what you plan on doing with C++. I might be able to help you get some answers.

Thank you! I just went out and got Accelerated C++, and I am liking it so far.
I haven't really thought of what I'd use it for in the future. I'm just learning the basics for now.
How comfortable are you with the language?

Hmm. Well. I've had less than a year... So I can't say I am anywhere near an expert. But I feel pretty comfortable, as syntax isn't that hard to learn.
To me, the hard part is more or less figuring out which algorithm works best with the system you are programming for.
Therefore, I consider myself to be above beginner level in C++.

1) I don't see why some of you guys recommend python as a "better" first language, imo, this is probably a worse case, as it's syntax and concepts are not quite like how most other languages do stuff. I have no problems reviewing/reading code written in several other languages, python always has my head spinning.

2) C++ is a great "first" language, in so far as you don't try to write advanced concepts too early in the learning curve. you can quite easily teach someone how to use something like say... a std::vector or an std::map, without even explaning what a template really is. Many C++ tutorials i've read jump into advanced concepts way too early.

3) You don't need a formal tutor.
Just set some realistic goals for yourself. Such as wanting to make a specific type of program (think simple :p). Any time you have questions on how to approach something. You have hands full of tutors here at codeguru.

1) I don't see why some of you guys recommend python as a "better" first language, imo, this is probably a worse case, as it's syntax and concepts are not quite like how most other languages do stuff. I have no problems reviewing/reading code written in several other languages, python always has my head spinning.

2) C++ is a great "first" language, in so far as you don't try to write advanced concepts too early in the learning curve. you can quite easily teach someone how to use something like say... a std::vector or an std::map, without even explaning what a template really is. Many C++ tutorials i've read jump into advanced concepts way too early.

3) You don't need a formal tutor.
Just set some realistic goals for yourself. Such as wanting to make a specific type of program (think simple :p). Any time you have questions on how to approach something. You have hands full of tutors here at codeguru.

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Originally Posted by OReubens

1) I don't see why some of you guys recommend python as a "better" first language, imo, this is probably a worse case, as it's syntax and concepts are not quite like how most other languages do stuff.

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Other than the indentation being significant, I don't see Python's syntax as being very different from other commonly used programming languages. However, the fact that indentation is significant is one factor that leads me to suggest Python as a beginner's programming language: novices soon learn that the plague of horrible indentation will not only affect those who read their code, but themselves too when they try to test their code.

As for concepts: Python is effectively a multi-paradigm programming language, like C++, so I don't see that as a problem.

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Originally Posted by OReubens

I have no problems reviewing/reading code written in several other languages, python always has my head spinning.

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I have never had problems reading Python code, at least after I learnt a little bit of the syntax (which was just a little bit more than say, the syntax required for JSON). In fact, I was rather surprised to find that I wrote pseudo-code that was quite similiar to basic Python syntax.

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Originally Posted by OReubens

you can quite easily teach someone how to use something like say... a std::vector or an std::map, without even explaning what a template really is.

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Yes, Accelerated C++ takes this approach.

I think that's the problem with Accelerated C++. It almost seems like it goes so fast that it gets ahead of itself. I do like the straight-forward approach that it has, but IMHO, and this could just be because I only began reading it yesterday, but it doesn't spend enough time in each topic, making it a requirement to re-read lines over and over. I want to read something that takes that same 'to-the-point' approach, but that uses as much time as it needs to explain each point. Also, and this may be because I am still a high-school student, but it seems like they use unnecessarily complicated words that could just as easily been replaced with easier to understand words with the same meaning.

All of those things make Accelerated C++, in my opinion, an intermediate book aimed at someone with prior experience with programming. I am looking for something aimed at absolute beginners.

A little over a year ago, a friend of mine decided to start learning C++ but burned out. He gave up and instead went about learning Java. He is now a pretty well versed Java programmer, having created a 2D game engine with ragdoll physics, etc... Then, a month or so ago, he decided to start C++ again, and is doing well.
I am not terribly interested in creating games, but I thought about going the same route he did; Java, then C++.
I'm not sure if this is a good idea, and I am even less sure about giving up, but is this a route you would suggest?

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Originally Posted by HarrisonTZ

I think that's the problem with Accelerated C++. It almost seems like it goes so fast that it gets ahead of itself. I do like the straight-forward approach that it has, but IMHO, and this could just be because I only began reading it yesterday, but it doesn't spend enough time in each topic, making it a requirement to re-read lines over and over. I want to read something that takes that same 'to-the-point' approach, but that uses as much time as it needs to explain each point. Also, and this may be because I am still a high-school student, but it seems like they use unnecessarily complicated words that could just as easily been replaced with easier to understand words with the same meaning.

All of those things make Accelerated C++, in my opinion, an intermediate book aimed at someone with prior experience with programming.

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Accelerated C++ was developed from materials used to teach university students how to program, so yes, a high school student without a programming background or an instructor to explain finer points of detail could find it harder to learn from. However, it really is intended for beginners to C++.

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Originally Posted by HarrisonTZ

I am looking for something aimed at absolute beginners.

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There's Francis Glassborow's You Can Do It!: A Beginners Introduction to Computer Programming, but I have never done more than leaf through that book so I cannot tell you if it really is a good complete beginner's introduction to C++, or if that is just my first impression.

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Originally Posted by HarrisonTZ

I thought about going the same route he did; Java, then C++.
I'm not sure if this is a good idea, and I am even less sure about giving up, but is this a route you would suggest?

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This is pretty much what GCDEF and I suggested earlier, except that we (joined by STLDude and Alterah) suggested different programming languages, but you rebuffed it with post #5 ;)

Sorry for being difficult :P
I guess I kinda just thought about it for a while... Maybe I should learn Java then learn C++... Not sure...

Maybe this makes some sense indeed. Java (or C# if you want) is purely object oriented language while C++ is a multi paradigm language. So, getting along with OOP in some other language makes the threshold lowered enough to start with C++ with acceptable level of pain... Actually this is what guys already recommended at the thread's very beginning: you start with some other language. :)

I'm just worried that I am going to have the same issue with Java... I guess I gotta try and see.

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Originally Posted by HarrisonTZ

Maybe I should learn Java then learn C++... Not sure...

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Of course, if you do learn Java first, then when you learn C++, you need to remember that just because certain constructs look similiar in Java as in C++, they are not necessarily the same thing. The new language has different idioms that need to be learnt. This is true whenever you learn a new programming language, but there is a certain amount of notoriety concerning Java to C++ learners, probably because many students learn Java as their first programming language then stumble when learning C++ because they assume that C++ is effectively Java.

That's a good point. Hopefully I remember that when I go back a year from now :P

Hmm... I'm going to do a last ditch bit of advocacy of the programming language that I favour for absolute beginners: have you tried Computer Science Circles?

Not to mention Python is a powerful and useful language. C++ isn't the easiest language to learn. Another thing to keep in mind is that whichever language you do choose, you could also try finding exercises for other languages. So, if you choose Python, but find 10 exercises for C++, then do those in Python instead.

Hmm.. With all due respect, I think some of you guys are taking advantage of this beginner programmer's thread, in order to promote a specific language. The OP simply wants to learn C++. He didn't ask about Python, so the thread shouldn't be focused on getting him to go to Python. As easy as Python's syntax is to read, I just can't believe that one language would be "better" to learn first over any other, and I have my own personal experiences to back that statement up.

Harrison. If you want to learn C++, then learn C++. You can research day and night for the 'best language,' the 'best first language,' the 'easiest language,' etc. You will ultimately never find the answer you are looking for until you simply try them all. I suggest you stick with C++. Window's is built on C/C++, and even though Microsoft is making other languages more accessible, C/C++ is still the top language being used, today. Java is not far behind, it simply hasn't had enough time yet to pass C/C++ up (but I'm sure it will). If you are not concerned with which language has more popularity, then disregard those lines.

If you need a programming tutor, then I will fill the position for a while. I love helping and working with enthusiastic programmers. I would love helping you here and there on concepts that need to be expanded. You could simply post a thread on any programming forum on the concept you need help with, but you will get users who have nothing better to do than to bash on you for not using Google search. If you have time on your side (and since you area a high-school student, I'm sure you have all the time in the world), then Google searching will fulfill many of your questions. However, if you need or want to learn more quickly, then having someone to count on is the way to go.

Feel free to message me whenever about anything.

Wow. This was exactly what I needed. The thing about a tutor (and thank you so much for the offer) is that I would need to be able to talk to them live. If you are willing to do that on occasion, you don't know how much I would appreciate it. If you just want to message, that's fine, but like I said in the OP, I am more of a hands-on kinda guy.
Thank you so much for actually understanding what I need. I appreciate all the other suggestions, but this is exactly what I meant.

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Originally Posted by Vlykarye

Hmm.. Will all due respect, I think some of you guys are taking advantage of this beginner programmer's thread, in order to promote a specific language. The OP simply wants to learn C++. He didn't ask about Python, so the thread shouldn't be focused on getting him to go to Python. As easy as Python's syntax is to read, I just can't believe that one language would be "better" to learn first over any other, and I have my own personal experiences to back that statement up.

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If your focus is entirely on learning a programming language, then certainly none of them is "better" than another for that task. However, programming is not about learning programming languages. A complete beginner is faced with the challenge of learning the programming language, but also with learning how to program, i.e., the skill of designing and writing programs to solve problems.

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Originally Posted by Vlykarye

If you want to learn C++, then learn C++.

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Indeed. No matter what programming language you already know, you cannot get away from that fact. However, a programming language is just a tool; a programmer should eventually have more than one programming language in his/her toolbox. Hence, the idea behind recommending Python (or C# or Java, even though I have my reservations about Java due to my experience with Java to C++ learners on these message boards) before C++ is to learn by using a tool that is easier to learn (less programming language specific knowledge to acquire before being able to write "useful" programs; fewer pitfalls that a beginner is likely to stumble on), then add the tool that you want after you have a programming background.

Thank you for backing me up. However, I feel that your post is more directed towards me than the OP. But, I feel that I don't need any advice, and I certainly didn't ask for any. On top of that, he never said what he wanted to do with the knowledge, and after talking with him tonight, he still doesn't have any real goal. With such little information, I severely doubt the usefulness of pointing him to any specific language. Furthermore, his focus was to get a tutor. Simply focusing on that fact alone, I would say that over half the posters here completely disregarded his request.

Even on top of that, I swear I saw people arguing with each other on stuff that had nothing to do with the OP and his request. I know I haven't been around very long and that I haven't read too many threads; however, I hope this forum isn't just another place for programming trolls.

In any case, the best language to start out with is pseudo-code, hands down.

Guys, please understand my real point, it's not about gaining anything on my side. And please take no offence about this my note, but I doubt about this business resulting in any success.

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Originally Posted by Vlykarye

Hey dude. I am just like you. Started learning C++ on my own less than a year ago.

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Originally Posted by Vlykarye

If you need a programming tutor, then I will fill the position for a while.

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With all my respect, reality tells me that beginner cannot learn from other beginner anything good. I really hope that I'm wrong in this particular case.

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Originally Posted by Vlykarye

Thank you for backing me up. However, I feel that your post is more directed towards me than the OP. But, I feel that I don't need any advice, and I certainly didn't ask for any.

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It was directed at you since it responded to your statements, though in responding to you, I also explained my train of thought to anyone interested, possibly including HarrisonTZ :)

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Originally Posted by Vlykarye

On top of that, he never said what he wanted to do with the knowledge, and after talking with him tonight, he still doesn't have any real goal. With such little information, I severely doubt the usefulness of pointing him to any specific language.

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If HarrisonTZ's goal is to learn how to program, then my advice is relevant. If not, then finding a tutor was irrelevant to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Vlykarye

Furthermore, his focus was to get a tutor. Simply focusing on that fact alone, I would say that over half the posters here completely disregarded his request.

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That is a very narrow minded view. We're not minions here to do someone's bidding; we're people who have our own perspectives on how best to help someone.

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Originally Posted by Vlykarye

In any case, the best language to start out with is pseudo-code, hands down.

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Not really: it is good in that the focus is on the algorithm, not the syntax; it is bad in that there is no feedback to be obtained by running the code to see if it really works.

I love how you spend so much effort using quotes and typing out usernames. I'm sorry that I do not do the same, but I'm sure you can follow me perfectly fine.

My view is not narrow minded. In fact, the OP suggested many times that he is not completely uneducated in regard to his request. If he wanted to know which language was better, he would have asked. Perhaps, due to the fact that some of the members here kept badgering him to consider a [different] specific language, he eventually started questioning if C++ is the way to go. Please refrain from attacking me personally. You cannot possibly know whether or not my view is open minded or narrow minded with my single post alone. If I am wrong in saying this, please consider chatting with me elsewhere. I would love to hear your theories on psychoanalysis.

Also, just a little fyi, sometimes people like to use some sort of stylistic offset in order to distinguish serious text from sarcasm. The last line in my post is such a time.

Also, @Igor.

I specifically stated that I am above beginner level. Let me clarify this one more time. I have been programming over 8 years. If I am still a beginner programmer after so long, then I, too, would question why I even started C++ less than a year ago. I also have to disagree with you. I believe a beginner can teach another beginner perfectly fine. As long as the teacher knows the concepts he is teaching, there should be no problem.

That view is narrow minded because it pre-supposes that a question must only be answered in exactly the way that the help seeker envisioned, disregarding the possibility that there may be alternatives that the help seeker did not foresee. Notice that the criticism is directed towards the view, not the person, so it is not a personal attack. Furthermore, since it is directed towards the statement itself, that the view expressed in that statement is narrow minded can be determined from the single post.

Also, while an experienced programmer can teach a beginner to program, doing so with a programming language in which he/she is still a novice is probably not the best idea since the lack of familiarity with the language's idioms may cause him/her to unintentionally teach bad habits.

I will not unintentionally teach him bad programming or C++ habits. Have no worry.

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Originally Posted by HarrisonTZ

I do realize that C++ is not an easy language to learn, but I went in knowing that. I don't want suggestions for other languages, just offers from people who are willing to help me with C++.

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As much as I would like to continue our arguing, I believe that this is suffice enough.

EDIT: I realized that there might be some controversy as to what I am getting at. This is simply to show that my statement cannot be taken as narrow minded. Furthermore, I was not referring to the posts prior to the post in the quote; rather, only to latter posts. Also, statements do not pre-suppose.. They do not have minds. They do not have views. Only a person has those qualities. If you make a comment about my statement, then that is one thing. {#1} I hereby stand by statement.

DOUBLE EDIT: And putting all of that nonsense aside:

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Originally Posted by Vlykarye

Furthermore, his focus was to get a tutor. Simply focusing on that fact alone, I would say that over half the posters here completely disregarded his request.

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The first sentence is a fact. The opening clause of the second sentence is suggesting my specific train of thought and is therefore excluded from being open or narrow minded. The dependent clause of the second sentence... is also a fact. The main idea overall is simply an observation. Though, let us be honest here, it also is true. "I don't want suggestions for other languages..." - HarrisonTZ

"...that over half the..." This was a quick estimation. Please refrain from criticizing this portion of the text. Thanks.


#1 - I retract this statement, as it makes absolutely no sense: {However, if you are suggesting that you know what I pre-assume, then that is another.}. I'm not sure what I was getting at.

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Originally Posted by laserlight

However, it really is intended for beginners to C++.

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Maybe. but...
A beginner to C++ and a beginner to any programming language is not even close to being the same.

You can teach someone with a prior knowledge of "any" programming language how to work with C++ quite rapidly by building on earlier knowledge of how to program in another language.


Teaching how to program requires that you explain to someone how to decompose a problem into subproblems, and how to translate those subproblems into logic.
You'll also need an introductory course into boolean algebra.
...etc.


Accellerated C++ may be a good book to teach C++, but it may not be a good book to start programming. (I don't know the book so I can't say). I have in the past taught non-programmers how to program by using c++ with success, so it is definately possible with c++ as it should be with most other languages. But it does take a different approach for someone new to programming vs someone knowledgeable about programming but new to C++.





that said, I do find it strange that someone started on C++ and burned out, then managed to pick up java and do well. Language wise, they are very similar just working on a different underlying system (real hardware and OS vs a VM).

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Originally Posted by HarrisonTZ

Sorry for being difficult :P
I guess I kinda just thought about it for a while... Maybe I should learn Java then learn C++... Not sure...

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You probably need an introduction to programming (language neutral).

Language wise, you're just as likely to start with C++ as Java, the syntax is very similar, the different in where you pick up momentum is dealing with the environment. C++ deals with real hardware and real OSes, and C++ itself has very little support for this. Java deals with a VM with a much more elaborate standard library.

If you want to make a windowed application, then you'll get something done with java faster. But the bad thing with java is that as soon as you need to do something that goes "outside of the box marked java", you'll find that you have a hard time doing so.
With C++ you'll also need to learn about how to make Windows (or mac, or linux) do what you want it to do, and it'll be different on each platform.

So yes, in some respects java is better than C++, the real question is... WHY are you picking up programming, what is it you want to be doing once you get past the learning stage and start actually developping apps.

What kind of applications do you want to make ? The answer to that question will importantly influence what the ideal "first" language is to pick up.

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Originally Posted by OReubens

A beginner to C++ and a beginner to any programming language is not even close to being the same.

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Agreed. The course itself was intended for beginners to programming, so I think it is reasonable to say that the book based on the course was also intended for beginners to programming, but clearly this is a case of "your mileage may vary". (Things like "selecting and installing a compiler/IDE" were completely excluded: this wouldn't be a problem in a classroom, but it can be a problem for self-study.)

Good god. Just how many forums do you keep up with, laserlight? -randomly running into posts made by you from ages ago on different forums-

Guys, I do realize that sometimes a disagreement will pop up, but arguing in circles, referring to a post you made yourself, and just looking for something wrong in someone else's points is not really a good way to spend your time, especially if you stay up all night to do it. Just some friendly advice.