Life/Religion

[cilu]

Heard of the Barber who is required to shave anyone who does not shave himself ? If barbers can be tied to logic why not God ?

Of course I've heard. There are different versions of such logical contradictions.

In a library, there is a book that has a reference to every book in the library that doesn't have a reference to itself.
Question: does the book refer itself?

They are all particularizations of the problem of the set that contains all the subsets that do not contain themselves. And the question is: does the set contain itself?

[Deniz]

Cilu, can you define what an immovable rock is? How heavy would it have to be and how do we know the limits of God's strength when his Will is enough to create the universe?

Is there a certain number of tons of rock where it becomes immovable?

[cilu]

Cilu, can you define what an immovable rock is? How heavy would it have to be and how do we know the limits of God's strength when his Will is enough to create the universe?

Is there a certain number of tons of rock where it becomes immovable?

You should know that that is relative. For instance there are things your wife cannot move/lift but you can. So, how cau you define a limit, a weight for that? It depends on each person or the tools used to move/lift it.

[Deniz]

Can philosophy create a paradox it can not solve?

If the answer is yes then we (humans) have our limits.

Now try to imagine a being without any known limits to man.

You should be able to answer your original question about the immovable rock.

[Sabin_33]

Regardless, the is a huge problem with religion. Whether there is a god or isn't shouldn't matter, religion seperates poeple from each other for the dumbest reason I have ever seen.

Guy #1's mental image of a superior begin and his dictation of that is different from Guy #2. Although some types can get along, there will always be a barrier of differences on something niether of them can prove or disprove, but out of some ignorant whole of wisdom they both believe their beliefs are right.

I don't believe in a god, and I've never seen anything more incredible than the power of man. Religion seems like a waste of life.

[jusstujoo]

no one can convince no one to follow any religion.

i think if we are really truly positively interested in knowning the truth than we shud <<try>> to know the truth.

like for example, in search for the truth, we shud:

- open, unbiased, and welcoming.

- read the translations of holy books from various religions. a few given this website: http://www.cftech.com/BrainBank/OTHE...HolyBooks.html

- attend seminars, read books, news, critical views, meet religious ppl. ask questions. several questions. lots and lots of questions. and with every convincing answer re-organize ourself. in the end, even if we wud not be able to find the truth, we sure will be very much closer to the truth. and that effort sure is an achievement.

- shud not get inspired by the ppl's attitude, cuz somtimes we will find bad ppl following a respectable religion, and similarly vice versa; so this shud not deviate us from the path, the search for truth, we are trying to seek. i.e. we shud not mix ppl attitude with their regilion, cuz some follow and some dont.

- shud always keep our heart and mind open. broad, understanding and unbiased, and only then we will be able to find the truth. as nobodys perfect, keeping an open mind, will allow us to correct ourselves, and with the passage of time(lika natural process of life) may help us in discovering, if not achieving, the truth.

in the end, watever we plan to follow, we shud be very, very clear abt our views and concepts. i mean "crystal-clear"[1]. be what we want to be. follow the one that our intuition guide us towards, so that on any arbitary discussion we can prove the reason(if asked) why we chose, and thus convince(if they're willing to listen) others for the same.

1. crystal-clear means, being very very clear, why, what, how, when, etc, we follow the religion we chose. and if ever asked, either we shud be able to convince why do we follow the religion we chose, or otherwise be ready to listen and welcome other ppls views and suggestions for the same.

[cilu]

no one can convince no one to follow any religion

You are so wrong. People convince other people all the time to follow one or another religion.

[Deniz]

Religion is the worse thing mankind has ever invented. Even worse than the atomic bomb.

Religion kills! Stay away from religion.

[erankushmehta]

Religion is the worse thing mankind has ever invented. Even worse than the atomic bomb.

Religion kills! Stay away from religion.

Deniz, What is religion?

[Deniz]

Religion is man trying to find God through man made means.

[erankushmehta]

Religion is man trying to find God through man made means.

So, are man made means enough to find or know something that what we call god(the creator,destructor & protector) of universe which has no end & compared to which we are not even a speck of dust?

[Deniz]

So, are man made means enough to find or know something that what we call god(the creator,destructor & protector) of universe which has no end & compared to which we are not even a speck of dust?

Unfortunately no. Man is not capable of holiness on his own.

[darwen]

I've got two conflicting views to put forwards here.

When I was studying biochemistry I was absolutely staggered by how many coincidences go to make up even the simplest operation in the human body. These aren't just coincidences which could be explained away by evolution : they are in the chemistry created at the start of the universe. Even to the point that if one electron shell was at a slightly different potential then certain molecules necessary for life to exist just wouldn't - and neither would life.

That said there are a large number of philosophical statements which logically disprove the existance of God.

For instance there's the determinancy argument - one of my favourites - which states :

(1) God is omnipotent and therefore knows everything.
(2) Therefore he has known from the creation of the universe whether everyone is going to go to heaven or hell.
(3) This means that our lives are predestined and so nothing we do can change the ulitmate outcome.
(4) But hey - the Bible says we have free will.

So I think it just comes down to personal taste. If religion works for you then go for it ! If not, then so what !

But it should be borne in mind that religion should be taken like all other addictive things - in moderation.

Darwen.

[Deniz]

(1) God is omnipotent and therefore knows everything.
(2) Therefore he has known from the creation of the universe whether everyone is going to go to heaven or hell.
(3) This means that our lives are predestined and so nothing we do can change the ulitmate outcome.
(4) But hey - the Bible says we have free will.

That is one side of the story, life from God's perspective.

If you look at it from mans perspective we have free will and we can make our own choices. We can choose to ignore God, we can choose to reject God etc.

It would be wrong to use predestination as a means to reject God because we ultimately don't know what our destination is from God's perspective.

[erankushmehta]

The very existence of god simply can't be denied.It will be simply foolish to think that an order of such a complex system of this cosmos whose end even we don't now has come automatically.

However, we the humans by its very nature & consequently the erroneous hypothesis & tools can't understand the god(but he is there).

our karma (actions) decides our destiny. It is in our hands.