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  1. #1
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    Java - Most Popular Language?

    I dont get it, after all of the criticism's and misconceptions Java recieves, it is still the most in demand Programming Language for Programming Jobs. Why is this?I mean, there have been literally thousands of article on how Java is "slow","bloated" etc, yet it seems to be a hugely popular language in the Programming jobs world,my question is, why?

  2. #2
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    Re: Java - Most Popular Language?

    The first and the basic things with Java is Platform independent and so this is becoming more and more popular.

    Also we neednt wirte lines and lines of codes.. we can use the existing inbuilt methods..

  3. #3
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    Re: Java - Most Popular Language?

    Yeah, portability is a great issue for many software companies, they dont have any other good option. Java just fits perfectly there.
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    Ramkrishna Pawar

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    Re: Java - Most Popular Language?

    Quote Originally Posted by Microsoftlover
    I dont get it, after all of the criticism's and misconceptions Java recieves, it is still the most in demand Programming Language for Programming Jobs. Why is this?I mean, there have been literally thousands of article on how Java is "slow","bloated" etc, yet it seems to be a hugely popular language in the Programming jobs world,my question is, why?
    There are thousands (probably millions) of mails/articles against Microsoft OS platforms. Countless viruses , worms etc. using Windows vulnerabilities to harass hapless users. You have to pay for MS -development platforms and sometimes runtimes too (unlike Java SDK and many Java IDE's and web tech. containers which are free). even then more than 90% desktops have MS-Windows OS why ??

    Have you used Java ? done any comparison vis-a-vis Java and MS development technologies ? Which "anti-Java" articles are you referring too and have you made any attempts to verify them ?

    Java is probably the only viable language as well as technology platform outside MS today and most of it is free and whats more its portable (means runs on non MS OS too) and whats more oftentimes the execution speed is pretty good.

  5. #5
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    Re: Java - Most Popular Language?

    Agreed. Its portability and its stability are what win it with me, and I used to be a big C++ fan.

    M.
    Programmer in the making...

  6. #6
    dlorde is offline Elite Member Power Poster
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    Re: Java - Most Popular Language?

    Quote Originally Posted by Microsoftlover
    I dont get it, after all of the criticism's and misconceptions Java recieves, it is still the most in demand Programming Language for Programming Jobs. Why is this?I mean, there have been literally thousands of article on how Java is "slow","bloated" etc, yet it seems to be a hugely popular language in the Programming jobs world,my question is, why?
    Early versions of Java were relatively slow compared to C/C++ because the runtime translation to native code was inefficient. The detractors jumped on this and some still use it. Meanwhile, Java technology has advanced and performance is no longer significantly poorer than alternatives. I don't recall any claims that Java is/was 'bloated' - perhaps you could refresh my memory? A language is only a tool to perform a task, and a sensible developer will pick the tool best suited to the task (within the external constraints imposed). Java addressed a problem domain that was poorly supported by the tools previously available, and was simpler and easier to use. Interestingly, Microsoft has now adopted a Java-like architecture with .NET, and has extended and surpassed it within the limited context of MS operating systems. Java continues to be the most popular tool for platform-independent development, particularly web and multi-tier applications, because it is now relatively mature and stable, it's simple, effective, and easy to use, has a wide range of high-quality libraries, an active and open support network, and doesn't suffer the single-supplier dependencies of MS offerings, etc., etc.

    The fact that a product has received criticism in the past doesn't mean that the criticisms were always valid or that it still suffers from problems it was criticised for. The hallmark of a well-supported product in its early life is that valid criticisms are addressed and invalid criticisms are refuted.

    A most important, but also most elusive, aspect of any tool is its influence on the habits of those who train themselves in its use. If the tool is a programming language this influence is, whether we like it or not, an influence on our thinking habits.... A programming language is a tool that has profound influence on our thinking habits...
    E. Dijkstra
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  7. #7
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    Re: Java - Most Popular Language?

    Quote Originally Posted by dlorde
    The fact that a product has received criticism in the past doesn't mean that the criticisms were always valid or that it still suffers from problems it was criticised for. The hallmark of a well-supported product in its early life is that valid criticisms are addressed and invalid criticisms are refuted.
    Very true! Look how much critism Microsoft gets, but people still use it.
    IMO, Java is a good. Another very strong point of Java is Remoting.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Java - Most Popular Language?

    Quote Originally Posted by Microsoftlover
    I dont get it, after all of the criticism's and misconceptions Java recieves, it is still the most in demand Programming Language for Programming Jobs. Why is this?I mean, there have been literally thousands of article on how Java is "slow","bloated" etc, yet it seems to be a hugely popular language in the Programming jobs world,my question is, why?
    Well is it so?

    http://www.dedasys.com/articles/lang...opularity.html

    The negative articles about Java you mention are mostly from before 2003 when they were true. Today Java can compete successfully with other languages in some application areas but one shouldn't forget that it has been seriously crappy until quite recently.

    It probably will take another 5 to 10 years until Java has gained the full confidence of most mainstream developers. One thing that would help would be if Sun finally got its act together and proved beyond reasonable doubt that Java programs now are fast than their statically compiled counterparts. Not that it matters much but it would boost credibility and lessen the hype-deficit built up during Javas early years.
    Last edited by _uj; July 6th, 2006 at 03:28 AM.

  9. #9
    dlorde is offline Elite Member Power Poster
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    Re: Java - Most Popular Language?

    Quote Originally Posted by _uj
    One thing that would help would be if Sun finally got its act together and proved beyond reasonable doubt that Java programs now are fast than their statically compiled counterparts.
    I did see a comparison of Java with C++ a couple of years ago that showed (given a good JIT compiler) that in many situations it was as fast as C++ and sometimes faster... The problem with this kind of comparison is that there are so many disputable variables - environment, compiler, coding style, application, memory, timing, etc., etc. It's comparing apples with oranges, they are different tools suited to different purposes, and "my language is faster than yours" head-butting is really just ego massage. It may raise publicity-generating controversy, but anyone who takes such a superficial approach to their selection of language tools is unlikely to be able to take good advantage of whichever one they choose in any case...

    It would be more impressive and less provocative to show how the speed (and other measures) of recent implementations of Java has improved over earlier versions.

    The speed of a non-working program is irrelevant...
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  10. #10
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    Re: Java - Most Popular Language?

    I have worked on some major webbased application on J2EE platforms before 2002. At that time some app servers were not very good in speed even then the application that we developed was much faster (in terms of execution speed) compared to the VB/VC++ applications which were replaced by our app.
    Now this may have been do to better design on new app or bad design for legacy apps. , but the bottomline was it executed faster and was easier to maintain and was done in Java.

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    Re: Java - Most Popular Language?

    Quote Originally Posted by dlorde
    I did see a comparison of Java with C++ a couple of years ago that showed (given a good JIT compiler) that in many situations it was as fast as C++ and sometimes faster... The problem with this kind of comparison is that there are so many disputable variables - environment, compiler, coding style, application, memory, timing, etc., etc. It's comparing apples with oranges, they are different tools suited to different purposes, and "my language is faster than yours" head-butting is really just ego massage.
    I think the burden of proof rests on Sun. Right from the start in 1995 the implicit promise was always that a dynamic runtime system (represented by Java) will eventually overtake a static one (represented by say C++) in speed. The main argument being that a dynamic compiler has runtime information available which would result in superior optimizations.

    A decade has passed and we're still not there. How long shall the world wait for Sun to fulfill its promise? To me it's a question of credibility. All this hyping of Java hurt C++ a lot. It's only juste that Sun is called upon to deliver.
    Last edited by _uj; July 6th, 2006 at 09:01 AM.

  12. #12
    dlorde is offline Elite Member Power Poster
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    Re: Java - Most Popular Language?

    Quote Originally Posted by _uj
    I think the burden of proof rests on Sun. Right from the start in 1995 the implicit promise was always that a dynamic runtime system (represented by Java) will eventually overtake a static one (represented by say C++) in speed. The main argument being that a dynamic compiler has runtime information available which would result in superior optimizations.

    A decade has passed and we're still not there. How long shall the world wait for Sun to fulfill its promise? To me it's a question of credibility. All this hyping of Java hurt C++ a lot. It's only juste that Sun is called upon to deliver.
    I don't really follow your argument. How can another language 'hurt' C++? Has the SPCC (Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to C++) complained?

    As has already been explained, Java and languages like C++ are poles apart, different tools for different purposes - you can use a knife as a screwdriver, but only if you've no alternative. There's little point comparing their speeds unless they're both equally suitable for the kind of application you want to develop in other respects (a very rare situation). Then you use the one that performs best. There's no burden on Sun to prove anything - Java is much faster than when it started, and it's entirely up to you whether you use it or not. If it will do what you want, fine. If there's a better solution, use it. If you use hype to guide your choices you deserve everthing you get.

    In my experience, most developers and developments that moved from C++ to Java did so not because they believed some hype that it would be faster, but because it was new, interesting, easier to use, and more suitable for the emerging web applications and client-server systems.

    Simplicity and flexibility will trump optimization and power in a world where connectivity is the key...
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  13. #13
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    Re: Java - Most Popular Language?

    Quote Originally Posted by dlorde
    I don't really follow your argument. How can another language 'hurt' C++? Has the SPCC (Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to C++) complained?
    Languages compete. Do you really think Sun could afford to let Java fail? How to prevent that? Hyping Java and badmouthing C++ of course, backed by an enourmous amount of company cash.

    There's no burden on Sun to prove anything
    I think so. If you claim something you either deliver or say sorry. That's normal decency. The fact that Java has turned out quite well doesn't change that.

  14. #14
    dlorde is offline Elite Member Power Poster
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    Re: Java - Most Popular Language?

    Quote Originally Posted by _uj
    If you claim something you either deliver or say sorry. That's normal decency.
    Just out of interest, what did Sun claim that they haven't delivered and which 'hurt' C++ (a reference would help - I believe all Sun's public statements are online) ?

    When a programming language is created that allows programmers to program in simple English, it will be discovered that programmers cannot speak English...
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  15. #15
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    Re: Java - Most Popular Language?

    Quote Originally Posted by dlorde
    Just out of interest, what did Sun claim that they haven't delivered and which 'hurt' C++ (a reference would help - I believe all Sun's public statements are online) ?
    Why are you so formal? I've lived through this from the birth of Java and onwards. The true story is never in public statements and you should know that if you are a practitioner.

    When a programming language is created that allows programmers to program in simple English, it will be discovered that programmers cannot speak English...
    And the Ulrika amendment is: English speaking people often think their simple minds are the truth.
    Last edited by _uj; July 18th, 2006 at 08:31 PM.

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