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Thread: Spider Man.............No More!

  1. #61
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    Re: Spider Man.............No More!

    Well, I'm not interested in the philosophies right now, but you guys can carry on, be my guest, I just burned my right ear because my cell got so hot while talking with her and I've to make some alternative arrangements for next time, which is more important at the moment. See u guys later
    Wish you good luck with that!
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  2. #62
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    Re: Spider Man.............No More!

    I would say forget about this debate... Different cultures have it laid down differently...

    I just want to wish Ejaz a hearty congratulations... this is special..

    I don't want to steal your thunder but me got married too this June... Having a great time now... the marriage is really something that will keep you astounded in the times to come.. I don't even sometimes realize that is has happened.. it feels like a dream..

    Have the best time.. have a nice wedding... remember us!

  3. #63
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    Re: Spider Man.............No More!

    Quote Originally Posted by exterminator
    Have the best time.. have a nice wedding... remember us!
    What do you mean remember us? I hope Ejaz will continue to be a part of CG, and not leaving for good just because of getting married.
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  4. #64
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    Re: Spider Man.............No More!

    Quote Originally Posted by cilu
    What do you mean remember us? I hope Ejaz will continue to be a part of CG, and not leaving for good just because of getting married.
    It is a little bit tough to get married.. you always need someone for the emotional support... that is when he would remember us.. the married ones...

    Get a hands-free or a phone with a loudspeaker.. that can help with the burning of the ear thing.. but still it won't get easy until you guys start living together...

  5. #65
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    Re: Spider Man.............No More!

    Question: What is the first thing that Ejaz would want to know of his wife?

    Answer: When is your Happy Birthday, dear?
    If there is no love sun won't shine

  6. #66
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    Re: Spider Man.............No More!

    Interesting topic, guys...

    One one hand, I understand an can relate to Marius' amazement and concerns towards arranged marriages (from a European perspective), OTOH, Sid's explanations are, as usual, very good. (And btw, you don't need to go as far as India or Pakistan to find these customs: Turkey or some north African countries will be sufficient, and even within the EU [like in parts of Sicily] arranged marriages are still common practice).

    However, regarding this part:
    Quote Originally Posted by Siddhartha
    Marriages in Asia for instance have a much higher success rate. Of course, this has more factors than just the satisfaction of the couples in question - like family values, etc - but, even if one looks at plain numbers, stuff seems to work better in that system.
    Exactly, and that's actually my point: These higher success rates are very likely to be rather an effect of other cultural influences that usually go side-by-side with the customs of arranged marriage, as they lead to a much higher social incentive for keeping up even an unhappy marriage. And that's the problem with those statisitcs: They don't measure how many of those marriages are actually happy, but only whether they visibly and officially fail or not (but that's basically what Sreehari already pointed out).

    Historically, in central Europe, arranged marriages are usually regarded as an anachronism of the middle ages nowadays - however, the perception of love marriage as an ideal is relatively young, and is mostly based on the intellectual ideas which evolved in the period of Romanticism (during the late 18th century), although since much earlier (just think of Romeo and Juliet, published in 1595), the tragic situation of couples who were not allowed to get married out of love, but had to obey socio-cultural, economical or political constraints instead, imposed on them by family and society, has been the subject of countless screenplays and other works in European literature.

    On the flip-side of arranged marriages, examples are not uncommon (in Germany!) of girls from Turkish families, who have been born and raised over here, are totally westernized in their ideals and behaviour, and have many friends (and maybe a boyfriend)... But then, at the age of 16, they suddenly get taken out of high-school and are sent to some remote village in the Turkish outback, where they get married with some bald fat guy who they've never seen before, only because their families have arranged this (and maybe her parents had some old favor to pay back to his family). And that's the kind of scenario people usually have in mind over here when they hear the term "arranged marriage".

    Quote Originally Posted by Siddhartha
    Well, one reason why Parents make good-choosers is that they don't make a decision in a love-lorn or lonely status. They make practical decisions (or recommendations, to be more precise).
    Hm... I've seen examples where this irrational impulse actually came from the families: They were starting to get worried about losing their face in their socio-cultural context only because their children weren't married yet, and relatives and neighbors started gossiping about that ... So the parents had the tendency to urge their children into a quick, but unreflected decision.

    But I believe that this entire discussion would need to take place in the much broader context of whether, in a particular culture, happiness of the individual (the two persons getting married, in this case) is regarded as the most important absolute value, or if some other "higher" common ideal (be it family values based solely on socio-cultural or religious motives, or even political ones, like in totalitary regimes) impose on the individual the duty to postpone personal happiness in favour of some sort of "higher" goal.


    // Just my 2 bytes...

  7. #67
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    Re: Spider Man.............No More!

    We can have best of the both worlds. I think the urban areas in South Asian countries are gearing towards this.

    1. The parents find the match. They give the children some time say 2-6 months or maybe more to get to know each other and if they find their match compatible, go along with marriage.

    2. The boy finds the girl. They let their parents know about their relationship. The parents do some research on say family background and if they are satisfied go along with marriage.
    If there is no love sun won't shine

  8. #68
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    Re: Spider Man.............No More!

    Quote Originally Posted by miteshpandey
    We can have best of the both worlds. I think the urban areas in South Asian countries are gearing towards this.

    1. The parents find the match. They give the children some time say 2-6 months or maybe more to get to know each other and if they find their match compatible, go along with marriage.

    2. The boy finds the girl. They let their parents know about their relationship. The parents do some research on say family background and if they are satisfied go along with marriage.
    OK, but really, why do we have to involve the parents at all? That's my question... Why can't the two people that get married arrange everything?
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  9. #69
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    Re: Spider Man.............No More!

    Quote Originally Posted by exterminator
    I just want to wish Ejaz a hearty congratulations... this is special..
    Thanx

    Quote Originally Posted by exterminator
    I don't want to steal your thunder but me got married too this June...
    Nice, but June is not a good time, you know, too much heat

    Having a great time now... the marriage is really something that will keep you astounded in the times to come.. I don't even sometimes realize that is has happened..
    [QUOTE=exterminator]
    it feels like a dream..
    [QUOTE]
    Same here.
    Quote Originally Posted by exterminator
    Have the best time.. have a nice wedding... remember us!
    Sure....I'm not going to Iraq or Afghanistan, it will be only a wedding, after 6-8 months

  10. #70
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    Re: Spider Man.............No More!

    Quote Originally Posted by exterminator
    Get a hands-free or a phone with a loudspeaker.. that can help with the burning of the ear thing.. but still it won't get easy until you guys start living together...
    Sure thing

  11. #71
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    Re: Spider Man.............No More!

    Quote Originally Posted by cilu
    OK, but really, why do we have to involve the parents at all? That's my question...
    Well, in these cultures, one would be wise to choose a partner of the parents' liking too as -
    • The son lives with his parents.
    • The Daughter in Law to be will move into the son's home.
    • The son's parents of course want the most amicable and suitable face they'd see every morning.
    • The DIL's parents of course want their daughter settled into the most comfortable environment.
    You see - in Asia (and probably some parts of Europe), it is not like two individuals mary. It is two families that marry.

    Marriage is not just a document in there... Serious.

  12. #72
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    Re: Spider Man.............No More!

    Quote Originally Posted by miteshpandey
    Question: What is the first thing that Ejaz would want to know of his wife?

    Answer: When is your Happy Birthday, dear?
    Wish if I could rate this

  13. #73
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    Re: Spider Man.............No More!

    Nice that you share those very interesting 2 bytes, Guido...
    Quote Originally Posted by gstercken
    These higher success rates are very likely to be rather an effect of other cultural influences that usually go side-by-side with the customs of arranged marriage, as they lead to a much higher social incentive for keeping up even an unhappy marriage. And that's the problem with those statisitcs: They don't measure how many of those marriages are actually happy, but only whether they visibly and officially fail or not (but that's basically what Sreehari already pointed out).
    Is it a problem with the statistics?

    The definition of a "happy marriage" in these cultures far surpasses the individual happiness of the couple in question. In that sense, marriages in western cultures are very narrowly centered around the happiness of the couple only. In fact, very often even the well-being of the child isn't a major influencing factor.

    So, it is very likely that a couple in the western society that feels unhappy would still be happily married in an Eastern environment where there is more than just a partnership at stake.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guido
    On the flip-side of arranged marriages, examples are not uncommon (in Germany!) of girls from Turkish families, who have been born and raised over here, are totally westernized in their ideals and behaviour, and have many friends (and maybe a boyfriend)... But then, at the age of 16, they suddenly get taken out of high-school and are sent to some remote village in the Turkish outback, where they get married with some bald fat guy who they've never seen before, only because their families have arranged this (and maybe her parents had some old favor to pay back to his family). And that's the kind of scenario people usually have in mind over here when they hear the term "arranged marriage".
    Actually, the western society IMO often confuses an "arranged marriage" with a "forced marriage".

    These really aren't alike and that example of the Turkish girl is one that I percieve as a forced nuptial arrangement - one that actually violates an individual's freedom. This isn't arranged marriage - though unfortunately, people here percieve it that way.

    An arranged marriage when correctly done is quite like a dating agency - but, one where the agency is the society, the agents are the parents that seek a suitable partner, and the clients are the prospective brides / grooms that consent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guido
    But I believe that this entire discussion would need to take place in the much broader context of whether, in a particular culture, happiness of the individual (the two persons getting married, in this case) is regarded as the most important absolute value, or if some other "higher" common ideal...
    Could not agree more.

    Perhaps, we are already getting into a broader context...
    Last edited by Siddhartha; August 22nd, 2006 at 04:48 PM.

  14. #74
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    Re: Spider Man.............No More!

    These really aren't alike and that example of the Turkish girl is one that I percieve as a forced nuptial arrangement - one that actually violates an individual's freedom. This isn't arranged marriage - though unfortunately, people here percieve it that way.
    It's the same, or worst with gypsies. The parents setup the arrangements at very early ages of their children (like when they are 2-4 years for example). Girls usually get married at the age of 12 or 14 (the most). Any "respectable" gypsy girl has a baby by the age of 15. There was a scandal last year because of a senator's girl (if I corectly remember) getting married at 14 (the law here only permits girls to marry if they are over 16). Now, I don't see to much freedom in that kind of arranged marriages. Nor too much happiness. (I'm not saying that is the case in Asia, even less Ejaz's case; the discussion went in a broader area, that's all...)
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  15. #75
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    Re: Spider Man.............No More!

    Quote Originally Posted by cilu
    OK, but really, why do we have to involve the parents at all? That's my question... Why can't the two people that get married arrange everything?
    Well, in Asia, families ties are considered very important. Marriage between 2 persons are not only the union of 2 hearts, bodies and money purses , but also all their families as well. So after the marriage, the couple still maintain a very strong family ties with their parents etc. As there are quite a number of factor, I believe that arranged marriage in India culture requires both families to tactfully mix and match to ensure that the marriage is successful. This is why they are looking for compatibilities in many areas, like families background, the person's character. I am not sure if there are similar saying but my folks alway tell me that if you want to know a person well, you have to know the person's friends first. In other words, with sufficient research and being done properly, arranged marriages can give better result rather than impulses of 2 love birds. On the contrary, if arranged marriage is being done on the impulses of parents without the appriopriate research, I believe the result will not be good. IMHO, I believe that it is the same as prior planning work in any software project. In order to ensure the success of the project, we have to do sufficient research as well as risk management.
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    Correct is better than fast. Simple is better than complex. Clear is better than cute. Safe is better than insecure.

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