God and religion

[cilu]

the grace of the almighty.

life begins when you accept your fate...

As for me, I don't believe in luck, as everything is destined already. GOD has prepared everything before and after, so is there a possiblity for luck?

Guys, I don't understand how you can believe in God and fate/destiny all the same time (I'm talking about Christian God, I'm not familiar with other religions). God and Fate are divergent ideas. You can't believe in God and say that he had prepared everything, and all happens according to a plan. Some of you probably know that I no longer believe in God, but according to the Christian Bible and Christian set of believes (which in my opinion are not entirely derived from the Bible), God has endowed us with Free Will. We are responsible for what we say and do, not God, no one else. Don't fool yourself. You are to be held responsible for your actions.

[mrRee]

Guys, I don't understand how you can believe in God and fate/destiny all the same time (I'm talking about Christian God, I'm not familiar with other religions). God and Fate are divergent ideas. You can't believe in God and say that he had prepared everything, and all happens according to a plan. Some of you probably know that I no longer believe in God, but according to the Christian Bible and Christian set of believes (which in my opinion are not entirely derived from the Bible), God has endowed us with Free Will. We are responsible for what we say and do, not God, no one else. Don't fool yourself. You are to be held responsible for your actions.

I also used to ask the same question...until one wise man told me about the God's plan....u put it this way...God had planned all for us...the plan mean: you not eat, you feel hungry...you sleep, you refreshed...the world rotate, there's night and day...it just like a law to this world...Katrina hurricane is just a plan and a nature's law...

there's much more he told me...I don't think this expalantion is enough for you but you can think about it...

as the Free will...we can change our fate but still we must follow the plan or law....you can't exceed the plan...

one more thing is bothered my thought before is why we lived in this world...is it just eat, sleep, work, enjoy and finally die?...that was meaningless...animal can do that also...so waht is the use being blessed with mind and lust?...

the wise man told me: as part of the God's plan...mind to think and lust to love...think, then you can prosper this world...love, then you'll appriciate this world(including the earthling and 'universeling')...

so what's good in prospering and appriciateing this universe, I ask him...only then your soul will rest in peace knowing that you accepted God's plan and use His blessing usefully...

I don't know...I'm still searching...

[Deniz]

Guys, I don't understand how you can believe in God and fate/destiny all the same time (I'm talking about Christian God, I'm not familiar with other religions). God and Fate are divergent ideas. You can't believe in God and say that he had prepared everything, and all happens according to a plan. Some of you probably know that I no longer believe in God, but according to the Christian Bible and Christian set of believes (which in my opinion are not entirely derived from the Bible), God has endowed us with Free Will. We are responsible for what we say and do, not God, no one else. Don't fool yourself. You are to be held responsible for your actions.

Cilu, you are right, a lot of the stuff out there these days, especially those associated with the Roman Catholcs, are not Biblical.

There is no Christian doctrine of fate/destiny.

We all have free will and are responsible for ourselves.

But this does not mean God can not see into the future. God already knows what is going to happen, but it doesn't mean we don't have free will.

Jesus knew Peter was going to deny him 3 times after Jesus was cought. Peter couldn't believe this. But only after it happened Peter remembered what Jesus had said.

In that little story you see the omniscience of God as well as free will.

[cilu]

I also used to ask the same question...until one wise man told me about the God's plan....u put it this way...God had planned all for us...the plan mean: you not eat, you feel hungry...you sleep, you refreshed...the world rotate, there's night and day...it just like a law to this world...Katrina hurricane is just a plan and a nature's law...

there's much more he told me...I don't think this expalantion is enough for you but you can think about it...

as the Free will...we can change our fate but still we must follow the plan or law....you can't exceed the plan...

In that little story you see the omniscience of God as well as free will.

Even if God was real, I can't accept that he is omniscient. Many things deny that. Starting with common sence. If God knows everything that was, is and will be, than it must be a really boring existance for him. Does he has thoughts? Thoughts about what, when he knows everything? What does he think of? Because if he decides to change something he already knew he would do that. An omniscient God would not require thoughts at all.

But the Bible clearly shows that God is not omniscient.

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

God should have known that already.

And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Was that something God didn't know?

And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

Why is God searching for Adam? He should have known were he was.

And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, […]
And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.

Where is Sarah? Come on.

I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

Future tense.

And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

Only now? Why not before if he was omniscient?

And God came unto Balaam, and said, What men are these with thee?

I thought God knew everything.

And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Does his omniscience cover his (former) angels also? Because it's clear he didn't know where Satan was.
Want me to continue?

Jesus knew Peter was going to deny him 3 times after Jesus was cought. Peter couldn't believe this. But only after it happened Peter remembered what Jesus had said.

In that little story you see the omniscience of God as well as free will.

Rather good human nature knowledge than omniscience.

I can also quote you from Bible verses that proves that God is not omnipowerful, nor omnibenevolent nor omnipresent.

[polus]

Even if God was real, I can't accept that he is omniscient. Many things deny that. Starting with common sence. If God knows everything that was, is and will be, than it must be a really boring existance for him. Does he has thoughts? Thoughts about what, when he knows everything? What does he think of? Because if he decides to change something he already knew he would do that. An omniscient God would not require thoughts at all.

But the Bible clearly shows that God is not omniscient.

God should have known that already.

Was that something God didn't know?

Why is God searching for Adam? He should have known were he was.

Where is Sarah? Come on.

Future tense.

Only now? Why not before if he was omniscient?

I thought God knew everything.

Does his omniscience cover his (former) angels also? Because it's clear he didn't know where Satan was.
Want me to continue?


Rather good human nature knowledge than omniscience.

I can also quote you from Bible verses that proves that God is not omnipowerful, nor omnibenevolent nor omnipresent.

Couldn’t have put the point better myself.

The sooner people stop relying on "God" and accept the fact that religion is the biggest wives tale of them all... the better!

As for the orignal post, it certainly makes for interesting reading and as others have said, I defiently agree satying "foolish" is a good thing

[logan]

As for me, I don't believe in luck, as everything is destined already. GOD has prepared everything before and after, so is there a possiblity for luck?

If we call him from our hearts then he changes what he himself set for us and rescues us from the biggest of troubles.

Guys, I don't understand how you can believe in God and fate/destiny all the same time (I'm talking about Christian God, I'm not familiar with other religions).

God is one. He is not different for me than you. He is everywhere and with everyone. We may call him from different names but he is the same.

Cilu, God is there for us. It's a matter of beilef if you believe in him or not. But take my word if you do then life would be more beautiful.

[logan]

Guys, read this true story...

The Man Without A Face
A True Story

Years ago a hardworking man took his family from New York State to
Australia to take advantage of a work opportunity there. Part of this
man's family was handsome young son who had aspirations of joining the
circus as a trapeze artist or an actor. This young fellow, biding g his
time until a circus job or even one as a stagehand came along, worked at
the local shipyards which bordered on the worse section of town.

Walking home from work one evening this young man was attacked by five
thugs who wanted to rob him. Instead of just giving up his money the
young fellow resisted.
However they bested him easily and proceeded to beat him to a pulp.

They mashed his face with their boots, and kicked and beat his body
brutally with clubs, leaving him for dead. When the police happened to
find him lying in the road they assumed he was dead and called for the
Morgue Wagon.

On the way to the morgue a policeman heard him gasp for air, and they
immediately took him to the emergency unit at the hospital.

When he was placed on a gurney a nurse remarked to her horror, that his
young man no longer had a face. Each eye socket was smashed, his skull,
legs, and arms fractured, his nose literally hanging from his face, all
is teeth were gone, and his jaw was almost completely torn from his
skull.

Although his life was spared he spent over year in the hospital. When he
finally left his body may have healed but his face was disgusting to
look at. He was no longer the handsome youth that everyone admired.

When the young man started to look for work again he was turned down by
everyone just on account of the way he looked. One potential employer
suggested to him that he join the freak show at the circus as The Man
Who Had No Face. And he did this for a while. He was still rejected by
everyone and no one wanted to be seen in his company.

He had thoughts of suicide. This went on for five years.

One day he passed a church and sought some solace there. Entering the
church he encountered a priest who had saw him sobbing while kneeling in
a pew.

The priest took pity on him and took him to the rectory where they
talked at length. The priest was impressed with him to such a degree
that he said that he would do everything possible for him that could be
done to restore his dignity and life, if the young man would promise to
be the best Catholic he could be, and trust in God's mercy to free him
from his torturous life.

The young man went to Mass and communion every day, and after thanking
God for saving his life, asked God to only give him peace of mind and
the grace to be the best man he could ever be in His eyes.

The priest, through his personal contacts was able to secure the
services of the best plastic surgeon in Australia. There would be no
cost to the young man, as the doctor was the priest's best friend. The
doctor too was so impressed by the young man, whose outlook now on life,
even though he had experienced the worse, was filled with good humor and
love.

The surgery was a miraculous success. All the best dental work was also
done for him. The young man became everything he promised God he would
be.

He was also blessed with a wonderful, beautiful wife, and many children,
and success in an industry which would have been the furthest thing from
his mind as a career if not for the goodness of God and the love of the
people who cared for him. This he acknowledges publicly.

The young man was and is Mel Gibson.
Mel Gibson ---- Australian actor (born in the United States in 1956)

His life was the inspiration for his production of the movie "The Man
Without A Face." He is to be admired by all of us as a God fearing man,
a political conservative, and an example to all as a true man of
courage.

And to think I admired him before I knew any of this!
He is quite a man!

[polus]

If we call him from our hearts then he changes what he himself set for us and rescues us from the biggest of troubles.


God is one. He is not different for me than you. He is everywhere and with everyone. We may call him from different names but he is the same.

Cilu, God is there for us. It's a matter of beilef if you believe in him or not. But take my word if you do then life would be more beautiful.

When people dictate answer's similar to that; It always makes me think that because some people know religion is just an old story but feel they have to believe in something otherwise they'd loose hope, they decide to alter there opinion to: "god is all around us" and "within us". It’s almost like people don’t want to face up to the fact that we're on a ball of rock/earth floating around and that’s that. There’s no one looking out for us. God certainly isn’t within me, I’am within me, and that’s what makes me, me!

[JonnyPoet]

I (for myself) am thingking that all human in every decade of mankind existance have had questions wherefrom they come and where they are going. And in every time there had been leaders called priests, that explained the others, whats going on and they tried to explain ethical principals by creating stories for explaining this hot questions which aren't even really explained with the big bang theory of this physical universe. Its the: 'who was first - egg or chicken question. They explained all ( They had to explain it, because there job was to be a priest which was and IMHO still is defined in peoples opinion to be 'the person' who knows about spiritual things ) And because they have known about all the big wholes in their explanations they wrote it in a book called it holy and said its dircetly from god. By this its forbidden to doubt about that in catholic belief they told me (when I was a child ) that its not allowed to only think about that. Because I like to think, I have reliefed me from that restrictions

And to get respect for their god they have to give him features, whichfrom people are think that are good features. Omipotent, omniscience and all that stuff. I think religion is philosophy which changes from time to time.
Some of them have leaded to extreme things like burning 'witches' where a witch or magican was defined to be anybody who was unwanted by the regime (political or religious )
But religion can still be a good thing, when it has a practical ethical system which gives people hope and a direction to create their live and their customs in a peaceful and helpful way, where there is a way to live a full live ant that they know that they are responisble for what they are doing or creating. And in opposit to religions like catolic full of fear and forced obligations there are religions like buddhism which have never gone through the world with fire and sword to convert people to 'the only truth'

Thats my opinion about that. Thx for reading that lot

Jonny Poet

[cilu]

It’s almost like people don’t want to face up to the fact that we're on a ball of rock/earth floating around and that’s that. There’s no one looking out for us.

My opinion about faith and religion is that all goes down to the idea that we like to believe that there is a higher power out there, somewhere, who watches over us, who takes care of us, who punishes the bad and rewards the good. That is the esence of every religion.

But religion can still be a good thing, when it has a practical ethical system which gives people hope and a direction to create their live and their customs in a peaceful and helpful way, where there is a way to live a full live ant that they know that they are responisble for what they are doing or creating.

Only that that means living lie. I don't like that. I like to know the truth, even if the truth is hard to stand. As the Bible says, the truth will set us free.

[JonnyPoet]

My opinion about faith and religion is that all goes down to the idea that we like to believe that there is a higher power out there, somewhere, who watches over us, who takes care of us, who punishes the bad and rewards the good. That is the esence of every religion.

Thats the method the etical systems are forced to people by religions.

Only that that means living lie. I don't like that. I like to know the truth, even if the truth is hard to stand. As the Bible says, the truth will set us free.

But live and logic and all in the world is a dichotomie, to have something 'good' needs his opposite the 'bad' you cannot have boolean without dichotomies True, False yes, no, black and white and also god and his opposit the devil. True and untrue. More near the truth is a scale something can be good ,a bit better, much better, a little bit bad, very bad, deadly bad. but all in relation to someone you see. Whats good for the hunter isn't good for rabbit. so whats good if you dont have a point of view ?
So whats true ? Whats real truth. People normally can agree that the truth is, what they have observed (with their own eyes). If they have very less
mental reservations they maybe say: thruth is what xy says, because xy is the person they trust.

But when five people observe the same thing and you ask them, what they have seen, you will get five differnt things and all are the 'truth'. I'm not implementing that they lie. it is, because they all have looked from a different point of view, with different abilities to look to something. And they are not only looking at things, they are implementing their experience.
You show them a person where they only can see the left side. you ask what they see and you get things like: I have seen his brown eyes ( He didn't know if there is even a second eye or not, he has seen 'his brown eyes' you see. So I think Jesus was one of them who said ( to come back to the bible philosophy Whats truth ?
To understand me: I haven't told that things in this book 'the bible' are true or not, wrong or not. I tried to explain, why IMHO this book was written
Its full of 'truth' and also full of 'lies' if you want. its a point of view nothing else, just like hunter and rabbit. Its depending if you are a part of the group or not. And if you try to be 'without opinion' thats an unfixed viewpoint. In that case other people will tell about you, that you are not reliable, that you permanently change your opinion. So you can decide which 'lie' you want to live : the christian, the atheistic, the 'we are all out of sludge' people, the big bang theory people, the 'believe in your success guys' and so on. But whats truth ???

I think I' m just very near to your point of view. But as more as I want to find out truth, as more I can agree with that big words: 'I know that I dont know'
And thatfor I like programming, because in relation to multiple logic of live, this is a very simple dual logic of yes and no and mathematics, which is maybe the thing where real truth is based on. But believe me: Its only opinion, I dont know.

Jonny Ppoet

[mrRee]

we're all human beings anyway...Atheist or not, we share this one world...as long as we can live in hermony, everybody can have their own opinion...

BTW...I'm hungry right now...aha..there is a cabbage in my fridge...I guess I want to be foolish by eat it raw....

[kirants]

Good thing about beleiving in religion and god is that some people get tremendous amount of tranquility by beleiving that there is some superior force that is taking care of things for them.. which I believe is good. It is something like a simple hug that one can receive from someone. Logically , the person could very well say I care for you and be off. But, a physical embrace has that power which cannot be quantified or reasoned out.. It just works. Religion and God might have that effect on certain people. I guess that is a +ve thing..

On the same count, I feel bad that religion has been a major cause of so much tragedy in this world too..

BTW, raw cabbage is good. Very healthy and very tasty if fresh too

[Max Payne]

people, don't eat raw cabbage ! stay hungry you wil...

[mrRee]

shish...I jsut want to lived by the "stay hungry, stay foolish" theory...but it seems too difficult...if I cooked the cabbage, I can't be foolish...if eat the raw cabbage, I can be foolish but I'm not hungry anymore...

what can I do!!!!!.....