Why VB 6.0??

[dglienna]

btw, vb.net isn't a good place to start in the .net.. c# is

You try both? The IDE is NOT the same. Intellisense is a lot better in VB, which means that you can learn how to use it easier.

I suppose you code in Notepad?

[Arjay]

Perhaps someone should compile a list of known facts about each languages differences:

1. Speed.
2. Runtime requirements
3. Compiling
4. Language syntax
5. Resources
6. Garage Collection
7. Price
8. Decompiling
9. Security measurements
10. Difference from msil vs actual native pe files
11. Job in demand
12. Hobby vs Job
13. .net history
14. Bussiness vs personal computers.
15. why people don't consider the vb.net an upgrade
16. Win32 apis vs the .net api
17. Speed factor between managed and unmanaged code
18. Trade offs
Speed vs Ease
Managed vs Unmanaged code
Security vs Ease

The list is incomplete. You missed several reasons that a .Net lover like myself uses .Net and the latest VS.

[Joeman]

btw, vb.net isn't a good place to start in the .net.. c# is

You try both? The IDE is NOT the same. Intellisense is a lot better in VB, which means that you can learn how to use it easier.
I suppose you code in Notepad?

I know the ide is better for vb.net, but I was referring to job hunting. Also notepad is out of date. I use Code::Blocks. I think I already told you this somewhere else, but I pretty sure your feeble mind as lost that little information now

The list is incomplete. You missed several reasons that a .Net lover like myself uses .Net and the latest VS.

How would I know. I don't use the .net. Make it complete.

[Joeman]

Like I said before. Microsoft made programming in the .net just like pointing and clicking on their os. I believe the reasons you like to program in the .net is because you feel you're a better programmer since you are being managed by ms. Also you can't screw up since your in the ms box now. I bet you even use vista ... What were you thinking? Just the sounds of msil + vista doesn't suit me well

[GremlinSA]

What you and arjay don't approve of my silly approval message? lol. It was a joke I got it from the darn presidental compaign. I really don't care that you use the .net. I personaly can say use the .net and leave me alone.

I'd be careful if i was you ... You scating on very thin ice here..
You've made your preferance known, now can you stop bashing those of us that are using .NET..

I know my apps will run faster.

I think that you are vastly mistaken here.. We've taken that Myth and shown that pure VB.NET, runs eqivalent times if not marginally beter than VB6 with API's.. Yet you make these claims with out putting any evidence foward..

8. I noticed the .net sucks
9. I don't work with vb6 as a job and I am sure most don't now
10. vb.net isn't for jobbing either. C# is.... mainly
11. This was a stupid poll and i have no intentions on making another poll
12. Why are you reading this?

This is an insult, And alot of us here do not take kindly to others insulting our line or work..

[dglienna]

Notice that MARKxxx stepped over the line Friday nite, and had his post in VB.Net removed. Please re-read the AUP, and heed gremmy's warning about 'skating on thin ice' as he meant.

[Joeman]

I think that you are vastly mistaken here.. We've taken that Myth and shown that pure VB.NET, runs eqivalent times if not marginally beter than VB6 with API's.. Yet you make these claims with out putting any evidence foward..

Didn't you code some project to compete with the vb6 version and found out that it took so much longer to get it to run at a reasonable state against vb6 and didn't it take you days to figure out that the .net was to blame for the slow down? I would like to see the results of both tests again. For some reason that test result for vb6 against vb.net wondered off.

For the insults, I took some too. So I gave some back. Vb6 is a fine language. If you don't like to hear the bad about the .net, fine. About the thin ice issue, perhaps when you give me proof that I am wrong I will stop bashing the .net. Have you wonder about that? The way you can shut me up is to prove me wrong? Are you just too busy to have time to back up your favorite language?

Notice that MARKxxx stepped over the line Friday nite, and had his post in VB.Net removed. Please re-read the AUP, and heed gremmy's warning about 'skating on thin ice' as he meant.

Thanks. I backed up all my post incase they are removed. Took sometime . btw I don't want things to go south. Trust me

Also isn't it weird that the vb6 forum has double(if not triple) the amount of people than the vb.net forum? I bet I know why too

Also, I have not received a private pm from a moderator yet stating I have received my fair warning.
The last time I got banned I had no warning. Whats the catch this time?

btw, who reads the eula ?

[Arjay]

Wow, you've got 116 posts and you've already been banned once? That's impressive.

I don't know, but you seem to alternate between being reasonable and then flying off the handle.

But enough about that, I have one question.

What do you think the mid-term forcast is for jobs doing VB6?

At the end of the day, this business is about having the skills to be employable and because of the constantly changing nature of the business, folks involved in this business need to keep up with current technologies.

Now a dev can choose to stay with the older technologies like VC6 and VB6, but I would suspect, that if VB6/VC6 jobs dry up, an interview candidate is going to have a hard time convincing the interviewer that they are using the wrong technology.

[Arjay]

This whole debate reminds me of a recent post in another forum where a guy ask if anyone still used notepad to write code and to compile on the command line any more. The guy went on to say that he felt you get a higher quality product that way.

It's so difficult to debate something like that because a guy just simply has no idea what he is missing with the newer IDE's if he hasn't spent sufficient time learning how to leverage the features of the IDE. Sure it's simple coding in notepad because all you need to worry about is the syntax of the language and how to compile.

Unfortunately, you don't get the additional features that help prevent syntax errors, or enable you to click on a compile error which takes you to the line of code where there is a problem. The current built-in debuggers are great too with the ability to inspect variables in a tool tip or even change variables on the fly. Of course if you haven't ever taken the time to learn a new IDE and learn its new features, then you really don't know what is being missed.

I kind of view this VB6 vs. current debate as the same thing. If you've looked at .Net 1.0, then you aren't getting the full picture of what .Net can do. With .Net 2.0 things really started happening. With .Net 3.0/3.5 it's even better. It's worth the investment.

[GremlinSA]

Didn't you code some project to compete with the vb6 version and found out that it took so much longer to get it to run at a reasonable state against vb6 and didn't it take you days to figure out that the .net was to blame for the slow down? I would like to see the results of both tests again. For some reason that test result for vb6 against vb.net wondered off.

Hmm, Have you not been folowing them properly ..

Task 1: Tile image on forms background..
VB6 = 94ms
Vb.NET = 1.38ms

Task 2: Initial testing
VB6 = 140ms
.NET = 250ms

Something to note about the .NET code, it was not properly tweeked and debugged for this task..

Task 3: Final Testing (And we tweeked .NET code here ..)

First Pass..
VB6 = 125ms
.NET = 125ms...

After Fine tweeks and full screen plotting
VB6 = 1232ms
.NET = 1060ms

Final stats: In terms of graphics only ...

Task 1 : .NET is almost 1000% faster (or 10 times Faster) ....
Task 2 : .NET (Badly done code) was 50% slower....
Task 3 : .NET (Checked and tweeked) was 10% Faster ....

If The Code in Task 2 was tweeked as was done in Task 3 we may have seen the same 10% improvement in speed ....

Hmmm as for the rest of your statement.... NO, it took a few days to find 'MY' bad .NET coding methods..

Code is only as good as the coder !!!!!!!!

For the insults, I took some too. So I gave some back.

In the Years that i've been here, I've never seen anyone throw out insults like you have ... This is a High quality Forum and the members here try to keep the discutions clean .. If you have a serious problem with any member rather take it to PM's, and keep the PUBLIC forum clean...

Vb6 is a fine language. If you don't like to hear the bad about the .net, fine. About the thin ice issue, perhaps when you give me proof that I am wrong I will stop bashing the .net. Have you wonder about that? The way you can shut me up is to prove me wrong? Are you just too busy to have time to back up your favorite language?

No One here has said that VB6 is not a good language, It was great in it's time.... But it's time has passed..
Also have you done anything to PROVE this bad about .NET, By your own addmision you do not use .NET, AND have no idea about what it is capable of ...

My favorite language is still VB6 .. no doubt about it, However, I've accepted .NET as the way foward and am trying to learn all there is about it. One thing is for sure, Long before i gett the full hang of .NET there will be a new Framework out that will change the way things get done, again...

Thanks. I backed up all my post incase they are removed. Took sometime

Wont help .. Once the Post is deleted, 'YOU' cant replace it , Sorry to tell you that you wasted your time there...

Also isn't it weird that the vb6 forum has double(if not triple) the amount of people than the vb.net forum? I bet I know why too

Bet you dont ......

btw, who reads the eula ?

HMMM .. That the AUP Acceptable Use Policy, with a link at the bottom of each page.

[Bornish]

Guys, after reading 5 pages of this thread, I felt my head will explode... or implode. Well, my vengeance will follow in having my 2 cents:
I also felt that the poll is a bit one sided; there're still many developers loving VB6; many of them use other languages, including C# or if you wish, dedicated scripting languages like lisp.
I gave up long time ago using VB6 for applications expected to work in a productive enviroment, but I still have it installed on, at least, one dev machine, just in case ; not long ago, I needed a small test which was supposed to diagnose the output of a GPS receiver available on a COM port, and it took me ~30 sec to write a VB6 exe and have the report file saved; on the same machine, it takes ~10 sec to load VS2005 and >20 sec to setup a new project in it.
On the other hand, using managed code, it takes me less than a day of work to write a dialog based interface for a casual application (under 50 features) which also looks and feels good (lets say most users would find it ergonomic and intuitive); to achieve the same in VB6 would take a bit longer, and would not look as good as using, lets say, Windows Forms.
It was mentioned here about DoD approved security; I've seen products approved by DoD, and for some I've wrote components... not so impressed anymore, as I was imagining before, by watching Hollywood movies
I think I've seen somewhere in this thread, someone saying that there're cases where C# is faster than C++ my comment would be: "that's ludicrous... don't forget that 99.99% of the code running on your computer was probably written in C++" (can someone confirm / infirm that .NET Framework Interpreter was written in C++? how about C# compiler? should I go on?)
I don't wanna be on either side of VB .NET or VB6, but if I'd have to choose, I'd vote for the completely free one (I wouldn't pay for any of them). 'till then, I'd use both, as long as I, personally, didn't pay for the license. In fact, I really think programming tools should be open source or at least free, and I would happily contribute all my free time for that; and that is not because MS couldn't spare the buck for charging on their dev tools, but because I'd like to be part of such project... helping fellow SW developers.
To keep this short, the last thing to mention is that one can even inject machine code in VB6 projects (as I'm describing in the article linked in my signature) and use function pointers (aka delegates), which proves, at least to myself, that no matter the language / environment, you can always push the limits further.
I wish you all the best "hammer" for the job... Cya around!

[GremlinSA]

But enough about that, I have one question.

(1)What do you think the mid-term forcast is for jobs doing VB6?

(2)At the end of the day, this business is about having the skills to be employable and because of the constantly changing nature of the business, folks involved in this business need to keep up with current technologies.

(3)Now a dev can choose to stay with the older technologies like VC6 and VB6, but I would suspect, that if VB6/VC6 jobs dry up, an interview candidate is going to have a hard time convincing the interviewer that they are using the wrong technology.

Thank you .. Back to the CORE question posed..

As you can see i split your post into 3 sections..

1: When i was job seeking 6 months back (and got my current job), there was only 1 job position open for a VB6 developer, and it was a contractual position for upto 12 months. Of the rest (about 1000 others) ~25% was VB.NET, ~25% ASP or ASPX, ~40% C, C++ or C#, and the ballance was perl, PHP etc...

2: VB6 will still always look good on your CV, however if you have nothing on the newer technologies, how can you offer any sort of Edge to the company.

3: This is the key aspect of it ... VC6 & VB6 Jobs are drying up.. many developing companies are moving to the newer languages because many of these can take better advantage of the newer technologies (Proccessor, OS, etc)...

With VB6 you are not able to take full advantage of multipul thread's, Dual Cores, nor is there any way to use 64bit core commands... This leaves you a little behind now, but as time passes you fall further and further behind..

[Bornish]

...With VB6 you are not able to take full advantage of multipul thread's, Dual Cores, nor is there any way to use 64bit core commands... This leaves you a little behind now, but as time passes you fall further and further behind..

Most developers seeking employment can't even read assembly, and no matter how old it is, knowing an architecture or two will always "look good" on your resume. If you know VB6 or not shouldn't be an imperative condition on employment requirements,... it is more important what you could have done in VB6, lets say, after working with it daily for 3 yrs; and that may include sucessful applications using multi-threading, running just fine on today's multiple core multiple processor platform!
My advice to all... learn as many languages / technologies you can, but learn them well,... especially to know when NOT to use them.
Once in a while, it might be better to "re-invent the wheel" or "over-engineer"
Regards,

[GremlinSA]

Most developers seeking employment can't even read assembly, and no matter how old it is, knowing an architecture or two will always "look good" on your resume. If you know VB6 or not shouldn't be an imperative condition on employment requirements,... it is more important what you could have done in VB6, lets say, after working with it daily for 3 yrs

Lol.. You dont know how true that is.. One of my work colegues has not ever worked in VB6 , however he trained in VB.NET.

My advice to all... learn as many languages / technologies you can, but learn them well,... especially to know when NOT to use them.
Once in a while, it might be better to "re-invent the wheel" or "over-engineer"
Regards,

Now i just need a little clarity here, Are you advising :::

A)People that have just started in the trade with .NET to learn VB6.. (Learning Older languages)

B)People that are fluent in VB6 to learn .NET ..(Learning Newer Languages)

C)Just in general, every one must learn as much as they have time/money for.... (Learn in both directions, Newer and Older.)

[Bornish]

Now i just need a little clarity here, Are you advising :::

A)People that have just started in the trade with .NET to learn VB6.. (Learning Older languages)

B)People that are fluent in VB6 to learn .NET ..(Learning Newer Languages)

C)Just in general, every one must learn as much as they have time/money for.... (Learn in both directions, Newer and Older.)

Very good point! In my oppinion is a combination of A, B, C... meaning:
A. Learn about older languages to understand better the newer ones Best example: ASM
B. Learn newer ones to know when there're easier / better ways to do something
C. Learn both older and newer as long as you may use them... it's called being pro-active!... though you don't have to become an encyclopedia... I focus more on what helps me do my work, in the field I do programming; many times I learn things not related to programming, but to the field for which I write software for.
I hope I have clarified everything now; still is only an advice... I might be totaly wrong, or it doesn't fit everyone.
Best regards,