Considering learning java in college. Open if you did.

[HighSkoolProgrammer]

Okay so basically here it is. I took beginner java last semester, my junior year and I enjoyed it. I thought it was really cool to be able to understand how to make simple programs, so this semester I changed one of my classes to the other java class we have, AP Computer Science. Basically I'm thinking that this could be a possible college idea for later and I was wondering if some people who know java or something similar could explain to me how difficult it is to excell in and successfully learn the code and get a job. Is it a stable job or one that will most likely be outdated in a few years. I know code changes and advances and after you learn one language it's apparently easier to learn another but the only thing stopping me is I can't even fathom making anything big. In a work environment do you work with teams to make stuff? How stressful is it? Sorry, this stuff probably doesn't make any sense but I just want to know everything, thanks!

[SonOfMyMom]

what the **** the uni wanna tech us ..I dont know ....trust yourself not professors...
I myself passsed bachelor from iranian thug professor and am doing master with australian university which robbing now...
trust me noting you can learn from university I personally learnt more things from the company I worked maybe related to work area..

JAVA is accademic language I myslef enjoy with .NET 3 ...at the university there is a frown on .NET ...

[nuzzle]

what the **** the uni wanna tech us ..I dont know ....trust yourself not professors...

I've made the exact opposite experience. It's my M.Sc degree in CS that made me a good programmer.

The whole purpose with a college degree is to learn the hard basic stuff that doesn't change in 50 or even 100 years. Then you get immune to technology change, you just adapt to the latest fad. It becomes easy to add on new knowledge because everything makes sense as a whole.

I strongly advice everyone with the ability and the means, to get a formal education. It's even fun and you get friends for life. You're almost guaranteed a fulfilling and financially rewarding career. You can get that without a college degree too, but having one definately will tilt the wheel of fortune in your favour.

[potatoCode]

well said nuzzle well said.

@HighSkoolProgrammer
It matters little if you don't know how to write a "hello world" program as long as you have a degree.
Don't follow the road I've been traveling as a dropout
The suffering is more than you could imagine...

What I wish more than thinking about giving up 10 times a day is how I wish
a philanthropist would make a personal loan so that I can continue my education.
I dreamed of an equal opportunity,
but looking back made me realize that
I've been treading on the cold glacier too thin to believe in such a fairy tale.

So your focus should be set on what nuzzle said - finish college.
But take heed,
far more important than anything that's been said is to make sure
your passion lies in on the path you're after,
for the journey led by compassion is worth so much more
than the life full of rewards with an empty heart.

[SonOfMyMom]

I've made the exact opposite experience. It's my M.Sc degree in CS that made me a good programmer.

The whole purpose with a college degree is to learn the hard basic stuff that doesn't change in 50 or even 100 years. Then you get immune to technology change, you just adapt to the latest fad. It becomes easy to add on new knowledge because everything makes sense as a whole.

I strongly advice everyone with the ability and the means, to get a formal education. It's even fun and you get friends for life. You're almost guaranteed a fulfilling and financially rewarding career. You can get that without a college degree too, but having one definately will tilt the wheel of fortune in your favour.

IMO accademic path and career path is really different...I hope you get...what is related to web programmer career to for example Neural Network Optmization..
I dont know if 40 company needs .NET programmer who needs accademic researcher..just restricted to university
consider programming....UML modeling what is related to prgramming...these are all stuff while implementing wont be obeyed...

do u know companies just seeling documents?

when you wanna work in a company they dont want you education they need to work them for less sallary(probabaly possible with less education level) but profficient in the career,work experince is more important than education for working somewhere but for flying accademic is good...
I suujest everyone a mixture of both ..

[nuzzle]

accademic path and career path is really different...

I was talking about a college education in preparation for a career in industry.

There are lots of blue-collar programmers working in coding sweat-shops for a nickel a day. If that's your idea of a fulfilling career then don't get a college education because then you're more likely to end up in a place like that.

Work experience is important indeed and with a college education you're in a better position to benefit from it. This is because what you encounter at work will be familiar and fit right in. You're spared the insequirity of not having the faintest idea of what you're doing.

To me it's a mystery that programmers aren't licensed like lawyers and doctors. Would you let a high-school drop-out represent you in a court of law or perform surgery on your brain?

[superbonzo]

To me it's a mystery that programmers aren't licensed like lawyers and doctors. Would you let a high-school drop-out represent you in a court of law or perform surgery on your brain?

well, doctors and lawyers must have a licence because doctors's and lawyers's negligence is prosecuted by law (at least in my country). Conversely, it's your fault if you hire a programmer that is not able to program (unless he tricks you deliberately, of course).

By the way, I don't know where you come from but in my country (Italy) the quality of degrees varies enormously (IMHO, of course) from city to city and even from class to class; thus a degree is neither a sufficient nor a necessary condition for a programmer to be a good programmer (or any other job for that matters) which supposedly is foundamental especially in the long term.

But take heed,
far more important than anything that's been said is to make sure
your passion lies in on the path you're after,
for the journey led by compassion is worth so much more
than the life full of rewards with an empty heart.

Agreed.

[SonOfMyMom]

I was talking about a college education in preparation for a career in industry.

funny , which college prepare students for industry...the nature of lessons is not to prepare students for industry ...I passed all these lessons...I am insulting academic lessons but am perusing it because I have to...

example in Australia:

ACS says
you are qualified
1-if you have diploma + 8 years experience work
2-you have bachelor + 6 years experience
3-you have vendor certificate(like Microsofrt,SISCO) + 6 years experince
4- you have Australia certificate (no work experience)

if you want to get PR from Mr kangaroo not waste your time in the college to learn some accademic lessons...you can work + Microsoft certificate..less time and money consuming...stucking at bachelor entrance exams and master..reading history books

[nuzzle]

well, doctors and lawyers must have a licence because doctors's and lawyers's negligence is prosecuted by law (at least in my country). Conversely, it's your fault if you hire a programmer that is not able to program (unless he tricks you deliberately, of course).

By the way, I don't know where you come from but in my country (Italy) the quality of degrees varies enormously (IMHO, of course) from city to city and even from class to class; thus a degree is neither a sufficient nor a necessary condition for a programmer to be a good programmer (or any other job for that matters) which supposedly is foundamental especially in the long term.

It was just an example to get my point through - the programming profession would benefit from some form of official licence or certification by an independent body of some sort. I don't think such a licence could or should be made mandatory by civil law because programmers aren't directly involved with the general public, but the purpose would be the same, to ensure a high standard among practitioners.

You've given another couple of examples as to why a "licence to program" would be a good thing. Companies can be more confident with who they're hiring, and a phony diploma is not an easy way to a programmer job.

[nuzzle]

funny , which college prepare students for industry...the nature of lessons is not to prepare students for industry ...I passed all these lessons...I am insulting academic lessons but am perusing it because I have to...

example in Australia:

ACS says
you are qualified
1-if you have diploma + 8 years experience work
2-you have bachelor + 6 years experience
3-you have vendor certificate(like Microsofrt,SISCO) + 6 years experince
4- you have Australia certificate (no work experience)

if you want to get PR from Mr kangaroo not waste your time in the college to learn some accademic lessons...you can work + Microsoft certificate..less time and money consuming...stucking at bachelor entrance exams and master..reading history books

Well, it seems what I asked for in my previous post is already in place in Australia. And it seems to be working. Not just anybody can call themselves programmer and start wreaking havoc. They're forced to demonstrate that they meet a minimum professional standard. Great!

My words seem to be wasted on you but a university education does indeed prepare you for a carreer in industry. But I agree, if your aim for Code Monkey you probably won't need one.

[superbonzo]

...but the purpose would be the same, to ensure a high standard among practitioners.

I agree, in principle. The problem is who does certificate the certificators (and their associated costs) ? it could seem the chicken-or-the-egg story, but suppose we're lucky and we find an indipendent group of people effectively capable of judging other people's academic education; wouldn't be simpler putting those people directly into universities ?

For this reason, ensuring a high standard should be a prerogative of academic institutions and if for some reason they fail to achieve that it seems unlikely that you'll find better alternatives elsewhere.

They're forced to demonstrate that they meet a minimum professional standard. Great!

If you're speaking of a minimum professional standard then I totally agree with you.